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AUTOMATIC TRANSLATION

INTERVIEW To BJARNE STROUSTRUP

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Translation

The 1 of January of 1998, Bjarne Stroustrup gave a interview to the
magazine of informatica of the IEEE. Naturally, the publishers thought
that the was giving a vision restrospectiva of the seven anuses of
diseno guided to objects, using the language that the same There is
created.

To the to end the interview, the interviewer procured but of it that
There is covenanted in a principle, and consequently, the publisher decidio
to suppress the contents 'for the well of the industry'. But as tend
to happen, the informacion it is filter...

Here this a completes transcripción of it that it is said, not edited, not
tested, is to say that not is as the interviews planned...

It encontrareis interesting...



Int: Well, makes some few anuses that change the world of the diseno of
software, as it is sit watching atras?

BS: In this moment was thinking in those given, just before of
that llegases. The recuerdas? All the world escribia in C and the problem
was that they were too good... The Universities they were too
good ensenandolo also. It is they were graduating programmers
competent to a speed of vértigo. That was the cause of the problem.

Int: Problem?

BS: If, problem. Recuerdas when all were programming in Cobol?

Int: From then. I also it i made.

BS: Well, to the principle, those types they were as semidioses. Their/its wages
they were high, and they were treaties as the royalty...

Int: Those they were good times, eh?

BS: Exact. But, that step? IBM it is i tire of this, and invirtio million
in to train to programmers, until the point that podias to buy a
dozen for middle dolar...

Int: That is for it that me i was. The wages decreased in a anus until the
point of that the work of journalist this better paid.

BS: Exactly. Well, it same step with the programmers of C...

Int: Already i see, but where wants to arrive?

BS: Well, a gave, while was sat in the office, was thinking in
this pequeno plan, that podria to incline the scale a little. Pense
'That ocurriria if existiese a language so complicated, so difícil of
to learn, that nobody it would be capable of to deluge the market of programmers?'
Empece catching several ideas of the X10, already you know, X windows. Is a
authenticate nightmare of systems graficos, that alone it is was executing in
those things Sun 3/60... tape-worm all the ingredients that i was seeking.
A syntax ridiculamente complex, functions obscure and structures
pseudo-OO. Even now nobody write in code indigenous for the
X-Windows. Motif is the unico road to to follow if you want to maintain the
sanity.

Int: This joking?

BS: Neither a hair. Of fact, exist other problem... Unix this written in
C, It that mean that a programmer in C puede it be converted facilmente
in a programmer of systems. Recuerdas the money that a programmer
of systems solia to obtain?

Int: Puede to bet for this. Is it that solia to make i...

BS: Ok, for it so much, this new language tape-worm that it be divorced for if
same of Unix, concealing the calls to the system. This podria to permit
to types that alone were knowing the TWO it be earned the life decently...

Int: Not me i can to believe that there is said that...

BS: Good, there is rained much from then. Now i believe that the mayoria
of the people it is habra figured that C++ is a lost of time, but
i have to to say that they have delayed but in it be given account of it that was thinking.

Int: Then, that made exactly?

BS: It is suponia that tape-worm that be a joke, never pense that the people
it is took the book in serious. Anyone with two fingers of front puede
to see that the programming guided to objects is anti intuitive, ilogica
and inefficient...

Int: That?!?!

BS: And as the code reutilizable... when you have oido of a compania
that reutilice its code?

Int: Well, never, but...

BS: Then these of agreement. Recall, some it attempted to the
principle. There is that compania of Oregon, i believe that it is was calling Counselor
Graphics, that revento attempting reescribir all in C++ in the 90 or
91. It i sit actually for they, but pense that the demas
would learn of its mistakes.

Int: Obviously not it made, truth?

BS: Neither it but minimo. The problem is that the mayoria of the companies
it is quieted its greater absurdities, and to explain 30 million of dolares
of lost to the shareholders podria have been dificil... Demosles the
recognition that deserve, finally procured to make that operated

Int: It made? Well that demonstrate that the OO operate...

BS: Almost. The enforceable was so gigantic that was delaying some five
minutes in to load in a estacion of work of HP with 128 MB of RAM.
Was going so rapido as a tricycle. Crei that serious a reef insalvable
but nobody it is i concern. SUN and HP they were too happy of to sell
huge and powerful you scheme with gigantic resources for to execute
programs trivial. Already you know, when we made our first collector
of C++, in AT&T, compile the classic 'Hello World', and not me podia to believe
the tamano of the enforceable. 2.1 MB.

Int: That ?!?!. Good, the collectors they have improved much from
then...

BS: It they have fact? Inténtalo in the finish verision of g++, the difference
not sera greater that middle mega. Furthermore exist multitude of examples
current in all the world. British Telecom had a disaster greater in
its hands, but, fortunately, it is rescinded of this and began
of new. Had but luck that Australian Telecom. Now i have oido
that Siemens this building a dinosaur and it is begin to to concern
because the resources hardware not make but that to grow for to make
to operate enforceable tipicos. Not is a delight the inheritance multiple?

Int: Well, but C++ is a language advanced ...

BS: Actually believe that ?!?!?! You you have sat some time and you you have
post to to work in a project C++? This is it that happen: First
i have post the sufficient traps for to assure me of that alone the
projects but trivial operate to the first. Catch the overcharge of
operating. To the final of the project almost all the modulos it have,
normally the programmers sit that they would have to to make it asi because
is as you ensenaron in its courses of learning. The same operating
then mean things different in each modulo. Attempt to put
some how much together, when you may have some hundred of modulos. And for the
ocultacion of data. God, to times not i can to stop of to laugh me when i hear
the problems that some companies they have had to the to make to its modulos
it be communicated between if. I believe that the i end 'sinergetico' it was
especially created for to writhe a knife in the ribs of the
directing of project...

Int: I have that to say that me i sit quite astounded for all this.
Says that procured to rise the salary of the programmers? That is
immoral.

BS: Not of the all. Each one has its opcion. I not was waiting that the thing
it is me it would be so much of the hands. Of any form i succeeded. C++ it is this
dying now, but the programmers still preserve its salaries
high. Especially those poor devils that have that to maintain all
this majaderia. You understand that is impossible to maintain a great modulo in
C++ if not it you have written your same?

Int: As?

BS: These it would be of game, truth? Recuerdas 'typedef'?

Int: If, from then.

BS: Recuerdas how much time it is perdia seeking to tientas in the
head-boards alone for it be given account of that 'RoofRaised' was a i number
of double precision? Well, imagine the time that you you can to pull for
to find all the typedefs implicitos in all the classes in a
great project.

Int: In that it is base for to believe that there is had exito?

BS: You acuerdas of the duracion mean of a project in C?. Some 6
months. Not much for that a type with a woman and children could
to obtain a level of life decent. Catch the same project,
accomplish it in C++ and that you obtain? You it dire. One or two anuses. Not is
grandiose? Much but safety occupational alone for a mistake of judgement.
And a thing but. The universities not they have state ense_ando C from
makes much time, it that produces a decrease of the i number of good
programmers in C. Especially of the that know about of the
programming in systems Unix. How much types sabrian that to make with
a 'malloc', when they have state using 'new' during these anuses and
never it is they have concerned of of chequear the code of return?. Of
fact the mayoria of the programmers in C++ happen of the codes that
you return the functions. That step with the '-1'? To the less wise
that tape-worms a mistake, without to tangle you with 'throw', 'catch', 'try'...

Int: But certainly the inheritance save a monton of time?

BS: It makes? You you have fixed in the difference between a project in C and
the same in C++? The stage in the that it is develop a plan in a
project in C++ is three times superior. Precisely for it be assured
of that all it that it has to it be inherited, it makes, it that not, not. And yet asi
continues giving failures. Who there is oido to speak of the lost of report in
a program in C? Now it is there is created a authenticate industry
specialized in to find them. Many companies it is yield and draw the
product, knowing that lose as a colander, simply for
to reduce the expense of to seek all those flights of report.

Int: There is tools...

BS: The mayoria written in C++.

Int: If we publish this, probably to him lynched. It is gives account?

BS: It i doubt. As i said, C++ this in its phase falling now and
no compania in its sound judgement would begin a project in C++
without a test pilot. That would have to convencerles of that is a road
to the disaster. If not it makes, then it is deserve all it that you pass.
Already you know?, i attempt to convince to Dennis Ritchie to reescribir Unix in
C++...

Int: Oh God. That said?

BS: Fortunately has a good sense of the humor. I believe that so much
the as Brian it is were appearing it that was making in those given, and
never began the project. Me said that me would help to to write a
version in C++ of TWO, if was party...

Int: It was?

BS: Of fact already i have written TWO in C++, you pasare a demo when
could. It i have it being executed in a Sparc 20 in the room of ordering.
Is going as a rocket in 4 CPUs, and alone occupy 70 megas of disk...

Int: As it is behave in a PC?

BS: Now these joking. Not you have seen Windows '95? I believe that is my
greater exito. Almost finish with the departure before of that estuviese
preparation

Int: Already you know, the idea of Unix++ me there is fact to think. Perhaps there is
someone there it would be attempting it.

BS: Not despues of to read this interview.

Int: It i sit, but not us i see capable of to publish this.

BS: But is the history of the century. Alone i want be recalled for
my companions programmers, for it that i have fact for they. You know
how much puede to obtain a programmer of C++ today gave?

Int: It i finish that oi it was something as some $70 - $80 the hour for one
actually good...

BS: It you see? And it is the earn to pulse. To follow the track of all it that
i have post in C++ not is facil. And as i said previously, all
programmer in C++ it is sit impelled for some promise mistica
to to use all the elements of the language in each project. That
certainly me annoy to times, though serves to my proposito original.
Almost me there is finished liking the language after all this time.

Int: Wants to say that not was asi before?

BS: It was hating. Seem extrano, not these of agreement? But when the
benefits of the book began to to arrive... well, you you make a idea...

Int: Alone a minute. That there is of the references?. It must to admit that
i improve the sharp-shooting of C...

BS: Hmm. Always me i have asked for that. Originally crei that it
There is fact. Then, a gave was discussing this with a type that
write in C++ from the principle. Said that not podia to recall which
of its variable they were or not referenced, for it that always was using
sharp-shooting. Said that the pequeno asterisk it is it was recalling.

Int: Well, arrived to this point soil to say 'many thanks' but
today not seem very adapted.

BS: Prométeme that publicaras this. My conscience this giving it better
of my same these given.

Int: It is it hare to know, but i believe that it is it that dira my publisher...

BS: Who it is it creeria of all forms?... Of all manners, you can
to send me a copy of the tape.?

Int: Neglect, it hare.
Translation